Comments on: Energy Debate Watch http://www.terrarossa.com/energy-debate-watch-11/ Where Conservatives Consider a New Energy Future Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:03:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Amador http://www.terrarossa.com/energy-debate-watch-11/#comment-4373 Amador Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:12:20 +0000 http://www.terrarossa.com/?p=171#comment-4373 Planning has never been America's strong suit; a problem inherited with vast open spaces, and the politics of profit and greed. Planning has never been America’s strong suit; a problem inherited with vast open spaces, and the politics of profit and greed.

]]> By: Alan Drake http://www.terrarossa.com/energy-debate-watch-11/#comment-4214 Alan Drake Fri, 08 Jun 2007 02:14:09 +0000 http://www.terrarossa.com/?p=171#comment-4214 <b><i>Shell even already has a plant on the shale in which they put heaters in the ground, heat the shale to 700 degrees, and the earth acts as the refinery</i> . There is a concept called EROEI - Energy Returned on Energy Invested. . How much energy does it take to heat the earth to 700 degrees for 4 years (and freeze the perimeter to keep it from escaping) ? . Best Guess (Shell secret so far) is 1 BTU in for 2 out. NOT VERY GOOD NOT WORTH DOING ! That $30/barrel was with natural gas under $2 per thousand cubic feet. NG is above $8 today and heading much higher in a couple of years. OTOH, transferring freight from trucks to electrified railroads trades 20 BTUs of diesel for 1 BTU of electricity. So does Urban Rail (8-10 to 1 directly, 20 to one with changes in living patterns) OTOH, I just checked out France's new electric tram building program. Just FOUR French cities over 100,000 do not have a new tram line or plans for one in process. Mulhouse (pop 110,000) got their first tram line in 2006 and will have 3 by 2012. Just one of many. They build them in 3 to 4 years, the US averages 7 years. The French have a non-oil transportation alternative if oil becomes a problem, the USA does not. France the Home of Can Do, Get it Done, Plan for the Future How Ironic, Alan Shell even already has a plant on the shale in which they put heaters in the ground, heat the shale to 700 degrees, and the earth acts as the refinery
.
There is a concept called EROEI - Energy Returned on Energy Invested.
.
How much energy does it take to heat the earth to 700 degrees for 4 years (and freeze the perimeter to keep it from escaping) ?
.
Best Guess (Shell secret so far) is 1 BTU in for 2 out.

NOT VERY GOOD

NOT WORTH DOING !

That $30/barrel was with natural gas under $2 per thousand cubic feet. NG is above $8 today and heading much higher in a couple of years.

OTOH, transferring freight from trucks to electrified railroads trades 20 BTUs of diesel for 1 BTU of electricity. So does Urban Rail (8-10 to 1 directly, 20 to one with changes in living patterns)

OTOH, I just checked out France’s new electric tram building program. Just FOUR French cities over 100,000 do not have a new tram line or plans for one in process. Mulhouse (pop 110,000) got their first tram line in 2006 and will have 3 by 2012. Just one of many. They build them in 3 to 4 years, the US averages 7 years.

The French have a non-oil transportation alternative if oil becomes a problem, the USA does not.

France the Home of Can Do, Get it Done, Plan for the Future

How Ironic,

Alan

]]> By: Amador http://www.terrarossa.com/energy-debate-watch-11/#comment-4127 Amador Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:20:05 +0000 http://www.terrarossa.com/?p=171#comment-4127 Great news, Robert. Now we need the other oil companies to start similar projects. Oil shales cover vast stretches in the west of both the US and Canada. Great news, Robert. Now we need the other oil companies to start similar projects. Oil shales cover vast stretches in the west of both the US and Canada.

]]> By: Robert http://www.terrarossa.com/energy-debate-watch-11/#comment-4058 Robert Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:40:09 +0000 http://www.terrarossa.com/?p=171#comment-4058 Has anyone noticed the vast oil reserves in the U.S. oil shale, located in the Rocky Mountains? I've heard estimates of between 2 trillion and 10 trillion barrels of oil in the shale, more oil than the entire Middle East combined, and enough to supply 20 million barrels/day for almost 274 years at the low end. Why hasn't that been counted as oil reserves? Only because they weren't economically recoverable reserves as long as oil stayed below $30/barrel. You want to talk about what will end our dependence on foreign oil, our oil shale will not only do that, but turn the U.S. into an EXPORTER. Shell even already has a plant on the shale in which they put heaters in the ground, heat the shale to 700 degrees, and the earth acts as the refinery. Not only do they pull out some of the lightest, sweetest crude in the world, the kind refiners love to use for gasoline, but they also get refined products, too - heating oil, naptha (one molecule away from gasoline), and jet fuel - all for a cost of $10/barrel. Buh bye, Ahab the Arab, once that operation gets scaled up to millions of barrels a day. Has anyone noticed the vast oil reserves in the U.S. oil shale, located in the Rocky Mountains? I’ve heard estimates of between 2 trillion and 10 trillion barrels of oil in the shale, more oil than the entire Middle East combined, and enough to supply 20 million barrels/day for almost 274 years at the low end. Why hasn’t that been counted as oil reserves? Only because they weren’t economically recoverable reserves as long as oil stayed below $30/barrel. You want to talk about what will end our dependence on foreign oil, our oil shale will not only do that, but turn the U.S. into an EXPORTER. Shell even already has a plant on the shale in which they put heaters in the ground, heat the shale to 700 degrees, and the earth acts as the refinery. Not only do they pull out some of the lightest, sweetest crude in the world, the kind refiners love to use for gasoline, but they also get refined products, too - heating oil, naptha (one molecule away from gasoline), and jet fuel - all for a cost of $10/barrel. Buh bye, Ahab the Arab, once that operation gets scaled up to millions of barrels a day.

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